gay dutchmen

[phanax]

does anyone else find it strange the idea that a man from holland would feel his country wasn't libberal enough to allow homosexuality, or was the place a bit different back then?

[Indefinite Description]

I haven't time to search thoroughly, but a little Googling produced www.galha.org/glh/61/waaldijk.html

...homosexuality as such has not been illegal since the Napoleonic Criminal Code abolished 'the unspeakable crime'. In the period between 1911 and 1971 it was illegal to have a homosexual relationship with someone under 21, while the heterosexual age of consent was 16. But since 1971 it has been completely legal, with the same age of consent for everyone, which is 16. At the present time public opinion polls and official policies of most leading parties (including the Christian Democrat Party) and some churches show an acceptance of homosexuality and a belief that there should be no discrimination against homosexuals.

[chemistry tom]

I find it stranger that Japan didn't allow foreigners for such a long time tbf.

[lelith]

Yeah, why didn't they allow foreigners?

[Indefinite Description]

lelith said:

Yeah, why didn't they allow foreigners?

www.baobab.or.jp/~stranger/mypage/seclusion.htm

The movement toward seclusion began with the first edict prohibiting Christianity issued by Toyotoi Hideyoshi in 1587. This along with the anti-Christian edicts issued by the Tokugawa shogunate in 1612 and 1614, was accasionally enforced, but Christians and missionaries generally survived by being discreet. The attempt to eliminate Christianity was enforced in earnest with surveillance and torture following Tokugawa Iemitsu's becoming shogun in 1623. The shogunate may also have seen seclusion as a way of secuing benefits of foreign trade for itself and preventing daimyo of the southwest from using independent trade with foreign countries to build their own strength. Though the prime motive is debated, it is clear that the tendency toward seclusion began before it became official policy.

[phanax]

skaskaska said:

I find it stranger that Japan didn't allow foreigners for such a long time tbf.

Japan was, and still is in many respects, a rather exenophobic country. This mixes rather strangely with the extreme formality of the society to the extent that they are sort of, 'politely racist' towards you. It's little things you notice when you go there (the word gie-jin was muttered much around our trip). You could live peacefully there for you're entire life, know every little custom, and still be an outsider, it's a bit strange really, espescially when you consider the massive love for western technology, culture etc

but that's what Japan seems to be really, a curious contradiction

[lelith]

What does gie-jin mean? (Some of us know very little Japanese, and google is not being helpful).

I'm never been to Japan, but from the Japanese programmes, and stuff i've seen, western culture does seem to be very popular. It seems strange that western people wouldn't be welcomed. Saying that, it's not like all Westerners are very welcoming to Japanese people either.

[Indefinite Description]

I think he means gaijin; it's the unorthodox spelling that's stopping Google being helpful.

[Maruno]

muchan said:

If you want to look up Japanese words, this free dictionary website might be useful:

www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict

That's the one I use. Very good it is too.

[phanax]

lelith said:

What does gie-jin mean? (Some of us know very little Japanese, and google is not being helpful).

I'm never been to Japan, but from the Japanese programmes, and stuff i've seen, western culture does seem to be very popular. It seems strange that western people wouldn't be welcomed. Saying that, it's not like all Westerners are very welcoming to Japanese people either.

giejin, or whatever alternate spelling you opt for (hey it's only phonetics), means "foreigner" though it's also worth noting that the original meaning was akin to some form of devil... this word can also often be used in conjunction with "baka" (fool), hence baka na giejin meaning "stupid foreigners"

[Indefinite Description]

phanax said:

giejin, or whatever alternate spelling you opt for (hey it's only phonetics)

I take it you don't use dictionaries, or Google, or any such resource for that matter.

It's a slippery slope, you know. A slipshod spelling here, a muddled romanisation there, and before you know it you're on the dark path to being 1337, and rightly mocked.

[phanax]

OK, my point is simply that all we really have are the sounds of the japanese words (as I don't think we're gonna start writting in kanji here anytime soon) so I'll admit to being a bit blaze about the "spelling"

that said if anyone is puzzling over which word I mean please just ask, my english isn;t that great either